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Themes

Themes


No theme with tiki 13.1 ?

Hello there !

I recently upgraded from 12.2 to 13.1. As expected, my customized fivealive theme didn't work properly anymore. Anyway, I would like to use one of the themes Tiki features (as the ones we can test here), but my theme folder is empty. Is that normal?
How to use for exemple Feb12 theme instead of Default Bootstrap? Is it possible to download it somewhere? I have spent a lot of time on http://themes.tiki.org but have not been able to find out.

Can somebody help me?
Thanks.

Japan

In Tiki 13, the themes are still in the "styles" folder, same is in Tiki 12. The themes don't move to the "themes" folder until Tiki 14. Tiki 13 being released with an empty "themes" folder and no explanation for it was an error; sorry about that.

Tiki 13 comes with a number of themes, which you should be able to select from on the Look & Feel admin page. Are you able to select themes there, same as in earlier Tiki versions? Feb12 is included with Tiki 13.

-- Gary

 


If I am reading between the lines that there is a possibility that the themes are not showing up in the drop down menu in Look and Feel, then there may be another culprit going on here.

When I uploaded both Tiki 13 and  14 to my shared hosting environment,  niether of the installations had themes in the drop down menu at "Look and Feel" but for the default bootstrap. Each time I tried to re install I was hoping something would give and  just right itself, I had zero luck in getting the themes to pop. Actually my main issue was with 13, because once I figured out the problem then 14 was a breeze to fix.

The issue was not with Tiki, it was with my shared hosting providing too many or too little folder and file permissions. When I was shopping for a hosting provider that carried php5.5 I had a chance to try Tiki 13 on two other shared hosting providers, and the permissions lined up beautifully upon installation. But when I finally decided on another provider for other reasons I had not performed a test run with Tiki 13 and I pulled the trigger, paid up on the first year, thinking that hey if they carry php5.5 then it's going to work as well as the first two tests I made on the other providers server.

I am very satisfied with my new provider, but there is just the little issue of setting the permissions. My current provider assigns perms differently, not a big deal, you just need to be aware that it happens

Check your permissions in order for Tiki to be able to access your folders and files appropriately. Run the setup.sh via shell per this document at https://doc.tiki.org/Upgrade#SuPHP_Problems

The shell command as noted at the above link will set all your file and folder permission approriately.

But, this may not be the issue at all, if you are just simply not seeing the themes in the proper folder then there is something else going on.

 

 Hello J,

If I am reading between the lines that there is a possibility that the themes are not showing up in the drop down menu in Look and Feel, then there may be another culprit going on here.


I do not see, between which lines you read that ;-)

Starting from 12 going over 13 and landing in 14 the themes system and parts of the directorys structure changed, especially regarding styles and templates.

Themes = Style + Template + optional extras like JS, Images, etc.

From Tiki 14 we have a structure that allows to upload complete Themes including custom Templates, Custom JS etc. into only one single directory and then apply it as a Theme in Tiki.

This is called "selfcontained theme" - no need to add stuff into various directories at different places.

In this context the directory styles was replaced by the directory themes.

And therefore, we had double directory themes and styles besides each other from a very late version of Tiki 12 until a very early version of Tiki 14 (then trunk).

In case you have a custom style in /styles in Tiki 12 or 13 and then you do an upgrade or fresh install, you cannot access this custom theme from "Look and Feel" until you reimplement it into the new themes directory system.

If you do that, you need to change to the new responsive "Twitter Bootstrap" class system. If you simply customised an existing olf Tiki legancy theme, you should better build upon on of the new responsified versions Gary did reimplement for Tiki 14.

You need to know, that one thing is the move to the new directory structure for themes and another thing is the new Bootstrap responsive CSS class system (CSS Framework).

Each Tiki 14+ should work with each Bootstrap 3.x theme which was not specified for a specific software.

I do not have an idea yet, which parts of for example wordpress themes we could reuse in a Tiki. But generally thinking and under the condition that WP themes respect most of the BS structures and ideas, it should be quite easy to adapt a WP BS theme for Tiki in it's basics - surely apart from the WP specific code.


Well hey, we all have our own lines! smile Yes you are correct, re reading the original topic post it does appear he was talking about the actual directory folder that contains themes, not the drop down menu of themes in Look and Feel. Sorry if I caused any confusion here.

Reading between a new set of lines, are you saying that quite possibly in Tiki 15 we may see some cool WP themes for Tiki?

Loool not fully met the right lines :-D , but possible.

It is more that we now are providing a quite easy to use opptunity (from Tiki side) for everybody to implement arbitary Bootstrap themes for Tiki.

First examples (her CSS and LESS only): http://bootswatch.com - thx to a kind dual licencing including the compatible MIT, these themes are included as legacy themes in Tiki (added in 13).

Find one or se cool WP themes (given you know some basics of WP, what could be helpful) and try to implement it to Tiki.

The CSS Part might be easy enough, wilst JS or WP-PHP parts might be difficult or impossible - maybe for mo parts even unnecessary.

We need experience and documentation about these themes.

 

Important to know:

foss themes where the originals are licenced either LGPL2 or MIT can be included into Tiki Core (to have it upon installation).

foss themes with other licence like BSD, Apache, GPL can be implemeted and provided for free dowload, which should not be a problem ... upload to /themes and apply, if the implementation is done (and tested) all right.

proprietary themes or paid themes (anything where you have to pay for or where distribution needs specific allowance or where free/pro is distinguied) can be implemented but not distributed.

For distribution the coder who implements must talk to the copyright holder.

 

So why not getting cool MIT licenced WP-Themes to Tiki: go - implement - share

 

 



Japan

Hi,

I don't think WordPress themes will be included in the Tiki package necessarily, unless there's some overriding reason to do it; probably more likely the method to add them after installation will be documented. Part of the reason is the license issue, but also there's no reason to bulk up the Tiki package, which is already pretty huge, if it's fairly straightforward to install new themes after installation, which would also maximize the themes to choose from.

There'll be some testing soon on adapting a WordPress and probably other CMS application themes to Tiki, based on having Bootstrap in common, and it can be seen if there's some need for a special layout template file, for example, to help enable the new theme.

Something else to keep in mind is that WordPress themes have deep hooks into the WP functionality, often including special widgets, image sliders, scripts, functional modules or plugins and so on (with the pluses and minuses that come with that approach), whereas Tiki's themes are limited by design to be visual skins only. (Any functional code would be a separate package and would probably work with other themes as well.) So adapting a WordPress theme for Tiki would probably only provide the visual appearance unless the adaptor wants to go further to provide work-alike modules, etc. An inbetween point would be to provide the theme files and also documentation on how to configure Tiki to work best with the theme. This may be done in the future with Tiki profiles or the new feature, add-ons.

-- Gary

//Edit: this post and Gary's post before have been edited/reedited at the same time without knowing from each other. So there might be some duplication, which we appologise for. On the other hand that shows, that we independantly come to about the same conclusions //

Indeed it is not necessary and likely "stategically" not the best idea to bulk everything in to the core.

We need more external sites talking about Tiki and providing stuff for Tiki - profiles, themes, documentation, spreading the word, etc..

So opening the microcosmos is one thing.



Another thing is the licence issue.
Wordpress themes are usually GPL, which is not compatible with LGPL2. Even if it would be possible technically and we wanted, we cannot include wordpress themes to the core.

What everybody of us could do, is creating GPL WP-Tiki themes and provide them on the private website.

Aswell it would be possible to make some of them downloadable on themes.tiki.org if we (the Community) wanted.



And I found another issue - technical differences:

As I recently read about WP-temes, I did download a few wordpress themes yesterday and tried to implement one.
Not easy I say and not a quick job:

Wordpress themes ara opposit to Tiki deeply integrated in the code and contain a lot of php files. The system is completely different. The CSS part is sometimes only a small part, templated are (at least in this one) PHP and the most of the CSS selectors seems to be WP specific and not Bootstrap.

Actually I think the way how we implemented Bootstrap into Tiki is quite better, as we desided to use as much of the original Bootstrap selectors in our templates as possible.

The icons are integrated differently - even when using Fontawesome aswell. Many features are external tool, partly delivered in the theme or interacting with WP differently than we would do in Tiki.

I do not see an easy way to convert a WP theme to Tiki. Anyway it might be an interesting task to rebuild WP-Themes in Tiki and to provide this externally.



Imho we would need a combination of a downloadable WP-Tiki selfcontained theme plus a profile which creates the necessary custom modules and wiki Pages which Tiki would likely need to provide the slideshows and other stuff.

To get this right and nice and to a high quality, we should likely rise and spread our knowledge about plugin LIST and such, which imho would be aswell necessary (or at least helpful) to provide certain types of typical WP-Theme stuff.

The good thing about WP Themes, is that most of them are free (bound to GPL) and inspirational. So maybe woth to try.

Might be nice to have blog posts out there like "The best 20 free responsive WP-Themes 2015" or "Tiki Theme factory's new WP themes" or so.

Best regards,
Torsten

Japan

Hi,

I edited my post without noticing that Torsten had replied again, so there's some duplication, but also interesting that the same points came up independently.  :-)

-- Gary

Wonderful Torsten, thanks for the feedback and knowledge gained.

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