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[Tikiwiki-cvs/svn] SF.net SVN: tikiwiki:[61942] trunk/changelog.txt

posts: 683 Canada

Commit tags are handy, but I don’t care if they are not tagged “properly” as long as it’s close. I would rather see people’s effort in coding encouraged. If someone tags something that’s really off base, a quick mention is all that’s needed.

I would be in favour, if it’s posable, to perhaps rejig commit tags so they match up with what’s permitted to committed to which which branch, during each phase, if that’s not already the case.

Then perhaps when we go through a release, we can send out a reminder on dev list stating which tags are being accepted in each branch.

All in all I don’t care to spend much time st all subcategorizing the tags... I see little or even negative benefit. Would much rather focus on how to make tiki developers lives easier, and make tiki feel like a fun place to code.

We’re all volunteer labour here at tiki. Tiki doesn’t pay anyone for there contributions. If there is one thing I’ve learnt in places that accept volunteer labour, it’s that every effort needs to be encouraged and praised. People just don’t volunteer if it turns into a pain in the ass or they don’t feel appreciated.

-1 for making tags more difficult to select
-1 for strict adherence to existing tags

+1 for clarifying commit cycles with tags


Brendan

> On Apr 20, 2017, at 7:12 PM, Jean-Marc Libs <jeanmarc.libs@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Philippe and everybody,
>

>> On Thu, Mar 30, 2017 at 6:11 PM, Cloutier, Philippe (RESSOURCE EXTERNE) <Philippe.Cloutier.externe@mern.gouv.qc.ca> wrote:

>> Hi Jean-Marc,
>>
>> There is usually extremely little interest in commit tags. I doubt someone with an opinion on commit tags would be subscribed to tikiwiki-devel without being subscribed to tikiwiki-cvs, but you are of course entirely free to bring the topic there.
>>
>
> It’s not a matter of interest on the topic. I agree it’s low. It’s about using lists for their stated purposes.
> From https://tiki.org/Mailing+Lists:
> CVS SVN commits information, and comments about commits
> If you plan to develop and commit code, you should subscribe to this list.
> Development Tiki developers (the main decision/communication channel. Please do not use this forum for support — use the Forums instead.
>
> As you see, CVS is about discussing commits, not making policy decisions. I personally try to read everything on devel, and I only browse CVS when time allows. Some of us never do, and they should have the opportunity of reacting before changes show up in a commit.
>
>
>>
>>
>> The objective of the change is precisely to reflect that, by reducing the number of (top-level) tags and making some superfluous tags mere sub-tags, even more optional. While there is no guarantee, this will presumably reduce the frequency of tag misuse. This does not improve Tiki per se, but should improve the lives of administrators and code reviewers (to a certain extent J ).
>>
>
> Thanks for explaining the objective of the change: reduce the frequency of tag misuse. This is my opinion on the matter:
> The main reason for tag misuse is, tagging commits is less important than coding the commit itself. I feel you agree with this. Plus, it’s the last step, when people sometimes feel tired and impatient to wrap the the coding session.
>
> I feel misuse happens mostly because of inattention and carelessness.
> This is not going to be solved with a new system of tags which is more elaborate with sub-tagging. This makes the whole thing more complicated to understand and type. There is no reduction of the number of tags, they just get longer and there is more text to read in order to understand how it works.
> In my opinion, this will probably lead to more misuse.
>
> Sadly, I don’t have a 100% perfect solution. I just feel the optimum is having clear simple descriptions of tags, not too many tags, and point out tagging mistakes in reply to commit messages.
>
> That’s why I vote -1 to this change in the interest of the stated objective.
>
> Cheers,
> Jyhem
>
>>
>>
>> De : Jean-Marc Libs mailto:jeanmarc.libs@gmail.com
>> Envoyé : 30 mars 2017 08:41
>> À : CVS/SVN commits information <tikiwiki-cvs@lists.sourceforge.net>; Tikiwiki developers <tikiwiki-devel@lists.sourceforge.net>
>>
>>
>> Objet : Re: Tikiwiki-cvs/svn SF.net SVN: tikiwiki:61942 trunk/changelog.txt
>>
>>
>> I also miss an actual discussion on the devel list.
>>
>> Right now I have to fish around in the cvs list about the motivation for this change. The cvs list is for discussing individual commits with the people concerned, not for general policy changes.
>>
>> Right now I’m still unsure about the objective of the change. Does it fix some issue ? Does it make someone’s life better ? Does it improve Tiki ?
>> It’s hard to comment on the appropriateness of a solution without an understanding of it’s purpose.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> J-M
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Mar 30, 2017 at 12:45 PM, Jonny Bradley <jonny@tiki.org> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Chealer
>>
>> I did see that and replied to it (29 Mar 2017, at 11:40, reply to Luci’s reply) - what i was asking was did i miss the discussion where this change was agreed?
>>
>> I guess we just disagree on this - but mainly i think it’s more important what’s in the code than in the commit message.
>>
>> Must get on (with code ;)
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> jonny
>>
>>
>>
>>

>> > On 29 Mar 2017, at 21:15, Cloutier, Philippe (RESSOURCE EXTERNE) <Philippe.Cloutier.externe@mern.gouv.qc.ca> wrote:

>> >
>> > If you didn’t see my “Commit tags KIL, REM and others (RE: Tikiwiki-cvs/svn SF.net SVN: tikiwiki:61879 trunk/admin/include_userfiles.php)” to tikiwiki-cvs, you missed a couple hours of updatedness :-) (but I did write after the commit).
>> >
>> >> -----Message d’origine-----
>> >> De : Jonny Bradley mailto:jonny@tiki.org
>> >> Envoyé : 29 mars 2017 15:32
>> >> À : Tiki developers <tikiwiki-cvs@lists.sourceforge.net>
>> >> Objet : Re: Tikiwiki-cvs/svn SF.net SVN: tikiwiki:61942 trunk/changelog.txt
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Did i miss something?
>> >>
>> >>> On 29 Mar 2017, at 18:54, chealer at users.sourceforge.net wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> Revision: 61942
>> >>> http://sourceforge.net/p/tikiwiki/code/61942
>> >>> Author: chealer
>> >>> Date: 2017-03-29 17:54:02 +0000 (Wed, 29 Mar 2017)
>> >>> Log Message:
>> >>> -----------
>> >>> Change some commit tags into subtags: DOC -> ENH:DOC, SEC ->
>> >>> FIX:SEC, REM -> MOD:REM, KIL -> REF:KIL
>> >>>
>> >>> Modified Paths:
>> >>> --------------
>> >>> trunk/changelog.txt
>> >>>
>> >>> Modified: trunk/changelog.txt
>> >>> =============
>> >>> --- trunk/changelog.txt 2017-03-29 17:49:53 UTC (rev 61941)
>> >>> +++ trunk/changelog.txt 2017-03-29 17:54:02 UTC (rev 61942)
>> >>> @@ -3,13 +3,13 @@
>> >>>
>> >>> Changelog is now generated by a script (doc/devtools/release.php)
>> >>>
>> >>> -The following tags can be used to distinguish changes:
>> >>> +The following tags (and subtags, in the form TAG:SUBTAG) can be used to distinguish changes:
>> >>> * NEW for additions of new features
>> >>> * ENH is an enhancement; not really new but makes things work better
>> >>> (e.g. look and feel, performance...)
>> >>> -* MOD is a change in how things work, which may disrupt user
>> >>> habits, for example changing the default value of an option
>> >>> +** ENH:DOC (previously DOC) for improvements in the tips or
>> >>> +contextual documentation provided to the user/admin
>> >>>
>> >>> * FIX for bug fixes of any sort
>> >>> -* SEC for security fix operations (implies FIX). If you feel you
>> >>> have reason to put this tag, please first contact security at tiki.org
>> >>> +** FIX:SEC (previously SEC) for security fix operations. If you feel you have reason to put this
>> >> tag, please first contact security at tiki.org.
>> >>> * UPD for updates of third party/vendor libraries
>> >>>
>> >>> * UX for user experience improvements; makes Tiki easier to use and
>> >>> understand (more details in https://dev.tiki.org/UX ) @@ -16,14 +16,14
>> >>> @@
>> >>>
>> >>> * DB for changes in the database
>> >>>
>> >>> -* REM for feature removals
>> >>> -* KIL for removals of unused or obsolete files (has been used in
>> >>> the sense of REM prior to Tiki 6)
>> >>> +* MOD is a change which may be disruptive. For example, changing the default value of an
>> >> option.
>> >>> +** MOD:REM (previously REM) for feature removals
>> >>>
>> >>> +* REF for refactoring; changes the structure of the code (to make it cleaner or clearer), without
>> >> changing its actual behaviour.
>> >>> +** REF:KIL for removals of unused or obsolete files. This tag was previously “KIL”, which was
>> >> used in the sense of REM prior to Tiki 6.
>> >>>
>> >>> -* REF for refactoring; changes the structure of the code (to make it cleaner or clearer), without
>> >> changing its actual behaviour.
>> >>> * REL for the release process
>> >>> * MRG for branch merges, generally performed by the merge scripts
>> >>> -* DOC for improvements in the tips or contextual documentation
>> >>> provided to the user/admin
>> >>> * TRA for translation
>> >>>
>> >>> When possible, it’s also nice to indicate what feature is concerned by the change.
>> >>>
>> >>> This was sent by the SourceForge.net collaborative development platform, the world’s largest Open
>> >> Source development site.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >>> -------- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world’s
>> >>> most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
>> >>> ___
>> >>> Tikiwiki-cvs mailing list
>> >>> Tikiwiki-cvs at lists.sourceforge.net
>> >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tikiwiki-cvs
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world’s most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org!
>> >> http://sdm.link/slashdot ___
>> >> Tikiwiki-cvs mailing list
>> >> Tikiwiki-cvs at lists.sourceforge.net
>> >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tikiwiki-cvs
>> >
>> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world’s most
>> > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
>> > ___
>> > Tikiwiki-cvs mailing list
>> > Tikiwiki-cvs at lists.sourceforge.net
>> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tikiwiki-cvs
>> >
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world’s most
>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
>> ___
>> Tikiwiki-cvs mailing list
>> Tikiwiki-cvs at lists.sourceforge.net
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tikiwiki-cvs
>>
>>
>>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world’s most
> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> ___
> TikiWiki-devel mailing list
> TikiWiki-devel at lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tikiwiki-devel

Well said both Brendan and Jean-Marc.
Regards,
lindon

> On Apr 20, 2017, at 7:59 PM, Dr. Sassafras <drsassafras@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Commit tags are handy, but I don’t care if they are not tagged “properly” as long as it’s close. I would rather see people’s effort in coding encouraged. If someone tags something that’s really off base, a quick mention is all that’s needed.
>
> I would be in favour, if it’s posable, to perhaps rejig commit tags so they match up with what’s permitted to committed to which which branch, during each phase, if that’s not already the case.
>
> Then perhaps when we go through a release, we can send out a reminder on dev list stating which tags are being accepted in each branch.
>
> All in all I don’t care to spend much time st all subcategorizing the tags... I see little or even negative benefit. Would much rather focus on how to make tiki developers lives easier, and make tiki feel like a fun place to code.
>
> We’re all volunteer labour here at tiki. Tiki doesn’t pay anyone for there contributions. If there is one thing I’ve learnt in places that accept volunteer labour, it’s that every effort needs to be encouraged and praised. People just don’t volunteer if it turns into a pain in the ass or they don’t feel appreciated.
>
> -1 for making tags more difficult to select
> -1 for strict adherence to existing tags
>
> +1 for clarifying commit cycles with tags
>
> Brendan
>
>> On Apr 20, 2017, at 7:12 PM, Jean-Marc Libs <jeanmarc.libs@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Philippe and everybody,
>>

>>> On Thu, Mar 30, 2017 at 6:11 PM, Cloutier, Philippe (RESSOURCE EXTERNE) <Philippe.Cloutier.externe@mern.gouv.qc.ca> wrote:

>>> Hi Jean-Marc,
>>>
>>> There is usually extremely little interest in commit tags. I doubt someone with an opinion on commit tags would be subscribed to tikiwiki-devel without being subscribed to tikiwiki-cvs, but you are of course entirely free to bring the topic there.
>>>
>>
>> It’s not a matter of interest on the topic. I agree it’s low. It’s about using lists for their stated purposes.
>> From https://tiki.org/Mailing+Lists:
>> CVS SVN commits information, and comments about commits
>> If you plan to develop and commit code, you should subscribe to this list.
>> Development Tiki developers (the main decision/communication channel. Please do not use this forum for support — use the Forums instead.
>>
>> As you see, CVS is about discussing commits, not making policy decisions. I personally try to read everything on devel, and I only browse CVS when time allows. Some of us never do, and they should have the opportunity of reacting before changes show up in a commit.
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The objective of the change is precisely to reflect that, by reducing the number of (top-level) tags and making some superfluous tags mere sub-tags, even more optional. While there is no guarantee, this will presumably reduce the frequency of tag misuse. This does not improve Tiki per se, but should improve the lives of administrators and code reviewers (to a certain extent J ).
>>>
>>
>> Thanks for explaining the objective of the change: reduce the frequency of tag misuse. This is my opinion on the matter:
>> The main reason for tag misuse is, tagging commits is less important than coding the commit itself. I feel you agree with this. Plus, it’s the last step, when people sometimes feel tired and impatient to wrap the the coding session.
>>
>> I feel misuse happens mostly because of inattention and carelessness.
>> This is not going to be solved with a new system of tags which is more elaborate with sub-tagging. This makes the whole thing more complicated to understand and type. There is no reduction of the number of tags, they just get longer and there is more text to read in order to understand how it works.
>> In my opinion, this will probably lead to more misuse.
>>
>> Sadly, I don’t have a 100% perfect solution. I just feel the optimum is having clear simple descriptions of tags, not too many tags, and point out tagging mistakes in reply to commit messages.
>>
>> That’s why I vote -1 to this change in the interest of the stated objective.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Jyhem
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> De : Jean-Marc Libs mailto:jeanmarc.libs@gmail.com
>>> Envoyé : 30 mars 2017 08:41
>>> À : CVS/SVN commits information <tikiwiki-cvs@lists.sourceforge.net>; Tikiwiki developers <tikiwiki-devel@lists.sourceforge.net>
>>>
>>>
>>> Objet : Re: Tikiwiki-cvs/svn SF.net SVN: tikiwiki:61942 trunk/changelog.txt
>>>
>>>
>>> I also miss an actual discussion on the devel list.
>>>
>>> Right now I have to fish around in the cvs list about the motivation for this change. The cvs list is for discussing individual commits with the people concerned, not for general policy changes.
>>>
>>> Right now I’m still unsure about the objective of the change. Does it fix some issue ? Does it make someone’s life better ? Does it improve Tiki ?
>>> It’s hard to comment on the appropriateness of a solution without an understanding of it’s purpose.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>>
>>> J-M
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Mar 30, 2017 at 12:45 PM, Jonny Bradley <jonny@tiki.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Chealer
>>>
>>> I did see that and replied to it (29 Mar 2017, at 11:40, reply to Luci’s reply) - what i was asking was did i miss the discussion where this change was agreed?
>>>
>>> I guess we just disagree on this - but mainly i think it’s more important what’s in the code than in the commit message.
>>>
>>> Must get on (with code ;)
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>> jonny
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>

>>> > On 29 Mar 2017, at 21:15, Cloutier, Philippe (RESSOURCE EXTERNE) <Philippe.Cloutier.externe@mern.gouv.qc.ca> wrote:

>>> >
>>> > If you didn’t see my “Commit tags KIL, REM and others (RE: Tikiwiki-cvs/svn SF.net SVN: tikiwiki:61879 trunk/admin/include_userfiles.php)” to tikiwiki-cvs, you missed a couple hours of updatedness :-) (but I did write after the commit).
>>> >
>>> >> -----Message d’origine-----
>>> >> De : Jonny Bradley mailto:jonny@tiki.org
>>> >> Envoyé : 29 mars 2017 15:32
>>> >> À : Tiki developers <tikiwiki-cvs@lists.sourceforge.net>
>>> >> Objet : Re: Tikiwiki-cvs/svn SF.net SVN: tikiwiki:61942 trunk/changelog.txt
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> Did i miss something?
>>> >>
>>> >>> On 29 Mar 2017, at 18:54, chealer at users.sourceforge.net wrote:
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Revision: 61942
>>> >>> http://sourceforge.net/p/tikiwiki/code/61942
>>> >>> Author: chealer
>>> >>> Date: 2017-03-29 17:54:02 +0000 (Wed, 29 Mar 2017)
>>> >>> Log Message:
>>> >>> -----------
>>> >>> Change some commit tags into subtags: DOC -> ENH:DOC, SEC ->
>>> >>> FIX:SEC, REM -> MOD:REM, KIL -> REF:KIL
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Modified Paths:
>>> >>> --------------
>>> >>> trunk/changelog.txt
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Modified: trunk/changelog.txt
>>> >>> =============
>>> >>> --- trunk/changelog.txt 2017-03-29 17:49:53 UTC (rev 61941)
>>> >>> +++ trunk/changelog.txt 2017-03-29 17:54:02 UTC (rev 61942)
>>> >>> @@ -3,13 +3,13 @@
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Changelog is now generated by a script (doc/devtools/release.php)
>>> >>>
>>> >>> -The following tags can be used to distinguish changes:
>>> >>> +The following tags (and subtags, in the form TAG:SUBTAG) can be used to distinguish changes:
>>> >>> * NEW for additions of new features
>>> >>> * ENH is an enhancement; not really new but makes things work better
>>> >>> (e.g. look and feel, performance...)
>>> >>> -* MOD is a change in how things work, which may disrupt user
>>> >>> habits, for example changing the default value of an option
>>> >>> +** ENH:DOC (previously DOC) for improvements in the tips or
>>> >>> +contextual documentation provided to the user/admin
>>> >>>
>>> >>> * FIX for bug fixes of any sort
>>> >>> -* SEC for security fix operations (implies FIX). If you feel you
>>> >>> have reason to put this tag, please first contact security at tiki.org
>>> >>> +** FIX:SEC (previously SEC) for security fix operations. If you feel you have reason to put this
>>> >> tag, please first contact security at tiki.org.
>>> >>> * UPD for updates of third party/vendor libraries
>>> >>>
>>> >>> * UX for user experience improvements; makes Tiki easier to use and
>>> >>> understand (more details in https://dev.tiki.org/UX ) @@ -16,14 +16,14
>>> >>> @@
>>> >>>
>>> >>> * DB for changes in the database
>>> >>>
>>> >>> -* REM for feature removals
>>> >>> -* KIL for removals of unused or obsolete files (has been used in
>>> >>> the sense of REM prior to Tiki 6)
>>> >>> +* MOD is a change which may be disruptive. For example, changing the default value of an
>>> >> option.
>>> >>> +** MOD:REM (previously REM) for feature removals
>>> >>>
>>> >>> +* REF for refactoring; changes the structure of the code (to make it cleaner or clearer), without
>>> >> changing its actual behaviour.
>>> >>> +** REF:KIL for removals of unused or obsolete files. This tag was previously “KIL”, which was
>>> >> used in the sense of REM prior to Tiki 6.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> -* REF for refactoring; changes the structure of the code (to make it cleaner or clearer), without
>>> >> changing its actual behaviour.
>>> >>> * REL for the release process
>>> >>> * MRG for branch merges, generally performed by the merge scripts
>>> >>> -* DOC for improvements in the tips or contextual documentation
>>> >>> provided to the user/admin
>>> >>> * TRA for translation
>>> >>>
>>> >>> When possible, it’s also nice to indicate what feature is concerned by the change.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> This was sent by the SourceForge.net collaborative development platform, the world’s largest Open
>>> >> Source development site.
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> >>> -------- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world’s
>>> >>> most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
>>> >>> ___
>>> >>> Tikiwiki-cvs mailing list
>>> >>> Tikiwiki-cvs at lists.sourceforge.net
>>> >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tikiwiki-cvs
>>> >>>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> >> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world’s most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org!
>>> >> http://sdm.link/slashdot ___
>>> >> Tikiwiki-cvs mailing list
>>> >> Tikiwiki-cvs at lists.sourceforge.net
>>> >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tikiwiki-cvs
>>> >
>>> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world’s most
>>> > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
>>> > ___
>>> > Tikiwiki-cvs mailing list
>>> > Tikiwiki-cvs at lists.sourceforge.net
>>> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tikiwiki-cvs
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world’s most
>>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
>>> ___
>>> Tikiwiki-cvs mailing list
>>> Tikiwiki-cvs at lists.sourceforge.net
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tikiwiki-cvs
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world’s most
>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
>> ___
>> TikiWiki-devel mailing list
>> TikiWiki-devel at lists.sourceforge.net
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tikiwiki-devel
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world’s most
> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> ___
> TikiWiki-devel mailing list
> TikiWiki-devel at lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tikiwiki-devel


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