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Confusion about approval, flagged and stagged version

posts: 21

Here is some background information on this:

Staging and Approval was added around Tiki 2.0

The gist of it was that a staging page would “fork” a page, (start a
new page), copy the content, manage the history, and merge everything
back in upon approval. This new page would typically be prefixed with
a star. So that is why you can see these pages in old Tikis.

I invested a lot time to try to get it to work, and to document it.

It was:
1- A very good idea (not a lot of wikis have this, and it’s crucial to
certain use cases)
2- The end result was interesting for the end users
3- A good name

But:
4- Configuration was difficult
5- The implementation was too complex
6- It didn’t work with some of the other features (ex.: structures)




So, in Tiki7, Louis-Philippe and I designed a new system, which was
radically simpler, and had almost all the same features.

Basically, there is only one page (and thus, only one history). And
depending on permissions and status of revision, you can see the last
version (which is not yet approved), or only the last approved
version.

And once it was good enough, we removed the old code:
https://sourceforge.net/p/tikiwiki/code/35594

But for a while both features existed. What happens when you have two
features for the same thing? fragmentation, confusion and extra work.
We try to avoid this, and make sure a major enhancement replaces all
the important things of the old feature, and it’s just an upgrade. In
this case, the new system is radically simpler, and better, but it was
not feasible to make an automatic migration path. After the upgrade,
the users had to manual clean up any leftovers in pending (unapproved
changes)


I never liked the term “Flagged revisions”. Louis-Philippe picked it
mostly because it’s the name of the equivalent feature in MediaWiki.
“Staging and Approval” is a much better name, but couldn’t be used
because of the confusion with the old feature.


Back to the documentation: This is a good example of where trying to
support too many versions adds work.



My suggestion:

1- Rename the feature “Flagged revision” to “Revision Approval” or
“Staging and Approval”, (or something like this) which is semantic.

2- Redirect (with page aliases) all existing pages for names like this
to the new name.

3- Mostly pretend like the old “Staging and Approval” never existed
because it doesn’t exist in a supported version of Tiki (12+) but add
a paragraph on the page “There was an old implementation called
Staging and Approval, which was removed in 2011 and replaced by a
simpler, better and more future-proof design”

If you really don’t want to delete old pages and their history, let’s
create a new archive category, and put all similar pages in there
(ex.: Galaxia, etc.) So there could be a module, contextual to that
category “This page is for a feature which no longer exists in Tiki,
and is just kept for posterity”

Best regards,

M ;-)



On Wed, Jul 12, 2017 at 7:04 AM, Bernard Sfez <me@bsfez.com> wrote:
> Hello Devs,
>
> Seems we had in Tiki a feature “Stagging and Approval”
> (https://doc.tiki.org/Wiki-Page-Staging-and-Approval)
> Replaced (Tiki8 doc says it was removed) with “Flagged Revisions”
> (https://doc.tiki.org/Flagged-Revisions)
>
> But still both are a kind of living and labels are mixed. At
> tiki-admin.php?page=wiki
> The tab Flagged Revisions show a checkbox labeled “Revision approval”
> (should be Flagged revisions to avoid confusion with the old feature).
> And a field to select categories “Revision approval” (should be Flagged
> revisions categories to avoid confusion with the old feature).
>
> Precisions should be added to the usage of the categories. I set a demo but
> I’m still not sure how or what the category addition should be doing (I set
> my page with the not approved category and it doesn’t change even after I
> approve them).
>
> This page https://doc.tiki.org/Wiki-Page-Staging-and-Approval is still
> online and it is first found in google if you look for “tiki wiki approval”.
> It should be removed.
>
> my 2 shekels of the day :-)
>
>
> Bernard Sfez | bsfez.com
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world’s most
> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> ___
> TikiWiki-devel mailing list
> TikiWiki-devel at lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tikiwiki-devel
>



--
Marc Laporte

http://WikiSuite.org
http://PluginProblems.com
http://Avan.Tech

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world’s most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
___
TikiWiki-devel mailing list
TikiWiki-devel at lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tikiwiki-devel

posts: 6865 Israel

Thanks Marc for your detailed explanations !

I don’t have a formal idea about this, I just found it as I was wondering for someone else. :-)
Your suggestions sound like the way to go.

> 1- Rename the feature “Flagged revision” to “Revision Approval” or
> “Staging and Approval”, (or something like this) which is semantic.

Page revision approval sound clear to me.

Renaming the feature mean to rename also the page

> 2- Redirect (with page aliases) all existing pages for names like this
> to the new name.


> 3- Mostly pretend like the old “Staging and Approval” never existed

+1



Other thoughts ?

Bernard





> On 17 Jul 2017, at 23:08 , Marc Laporte <marc@marclaporte.com> wrote:
>
> Here is some background information on this:
>
> Staging and Approval was added around Tiki 2.0
>
> The gist of it was that a staging page would “fork” a page, (start a
> new page), copy the content, manage the history, and merge everything
> back in upon approval. This new page would typically be prefixed with
> a star. So that is why you can see these pages in old Tikis.
>
> I invested a lot time to try to get it to work, and to document it.
>
> It was:
> 1- A very good idea (not a lot of wikis have this, and it’s crucial to
> certain use cases)
> 2- The end result was interesting for the end users
> 3- A good name
>
> But:
> 4- Configuration was difficult
> 5- The implementation was too complex
> 6- It didn’t work with some of the other features (ex.: structures)
>
>
>
>
> So, in Tiki7, Louis-Philippe and I designed a new system, which was
> radically simpler, and had almost all the same features.
>
> Basically, there is only one page (and thus, only one history). And
> depending on permissions and status of revision, you can see the last
> version (which is not yet approved), or only the last approved
> version.
>
> And once it was good enough, we removed the old code:
> https://sourceforge.net/p/tikiwiki/code/35594
>
> But for a while both features existed. What happens when you have two
> features for the same thing? fragmentation, confusion and extra work.
> We try to avoid this, and make sure a major enhancement replaces all
> the important things of the old feature, and it’s just an upgrade. In
> this case, the new system is radically simpler, and better, but it was
> not feasible to make an automatic migration path. After the upgrade,
> the users had to manual clean up any leftovers in pending (unapproved
> changes)
>
>
> I never liked the term “Flagged revisions”. Louis-Philippe picked it
> mostly because it’s the name of the equivalent feature in MediaWiki.
> “Staging and Approval” is a much better name, but couldn’t be used
> because of the confusion with the old feature.
>
>
> Back to the documentation: This is a good example of where trying to
> support too many versions adds work.
>
>
>
> My suggestion:
>
> 1- Rename the feature “Flagged revision” to “Revision Approval” or
> “Staging and Approval”, (or something like this) which is semantic.
>
> 2- Redirect (with page aliases) all existing pages for names like this
> to the new name.
>
> 3- Mostly pretend like the old “Staging and Approval” never existed
> because it doesn’t exist in a supported version of Tiki (12+) but add
> a paragraph on the page “There was an old implementation called
> Staging and Approval, which was removed in 2011 and replaced by a
> simpler, better and more future-proof design”
>
> If you really don’t want to delete old pages and their history, let’s
> create a new archive category, and put all similar pages in there
> (ex.: Galaxia, etc.) So there could be a module, contextual to that
> category “This page is for a feature which no longer exists in Tiki,
> and is just kept for posterity”
>
> Best regards,
>
> M ;-)
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jul 12, 2017 at 7:04 AM, Bernard Sfez <me@bsfez.com> wrote:
>> Hello Devs,
>>
>> Seems we had in Tiki a feature “Stagging and Approval”
>> (https://doc.tiki.org/Wiki-Page-Staging-and-Approval)
>> Replaced (Tiki8 doc says it was removed) with “Flagged Revisions”
>> (https://doc.tiki.org/Flagged-Revisions)
>>
>> But still both are a kind of living and labels are mixed. At
>> tiki-admin.php?page=wiki
>> The tab Flagged Revisions show a checkbox labeled “Revision approval”
>> (should be Flagged revisions to avoid confusion with the old feature).
>> And a field to select categories “Revision approval” (should be Flagged
>> revisions categories to avoid confusion with the old feature).
>>
>> Precisions should be added to the usage of the categories. I set a demo but
>> I’m still not sure how or what the category addition should be doing (I set
>> my page with the not approved category and it doesn’t change even after I
>> approve them).
>>
>> This page https://doc.tiki.org/Wiki-Page-Staging-and-Approval is still
>> online and it is first found in google if you look for “tiki wiki approval”.
>> It should be removed.
>>
>> my 2 shekels of the day :-)
>>
>>
>> Bernard Sfez | bsfez.com
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world’s most
>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
>> ___
>> TikiWiki-devel mailing list
>> TikiWiki-devel at lists.sourceforge.net
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tikiwiki-devel
>>
>
>
>
> —
> Marc Laporte
>
> http://WikiSuite.org
> http://PluginProblems.com
> http://Avan.Tech
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world’s most
> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> ___
> TikiWiki-devel mailing list
> TikiWiki-devel at lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tikiwiki-devel

Bernard Sfez | bsfez.com <https://bsfez.com/>


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