Roundtable Meeting 2021 01

Volunteering Facilitator: Bernard Sfez / Tiki Specialist


Who plans to attend? (please vote for preferred times below)

People Confirmed

People Interested

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was there?

According to the tiki logs:

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Thu 21 Jan 2021 15:00 UTC

Thursday, January 21, 2021 at 15:00:00 UTC time (click to check time zone in your location)
Time in your timezone (when this page was last reloaded): Wednesday 06 December 2023 03:55:34 UTC


The time was set by the participants vote:

Tiki Roundtable Meeting Time Votes

Voting ended:
21 Jan 2021 14:00 GMT-0000
21 Jan 2021 15:00 GMT-0000
21 Jan 2021 17:00 GMT-0000
23 Jan 2021 14:00 GMT-0000
23 Jan 2021 15:00 GMT-0000
24 Jan 2021 15:00 GMT-0000
28 Jan 2021 15:00 GMT-0000



See Roundtable Meetings for a detailed description.


First hour, quick news

  1. Tiki lifecycle status
    1. How is Tiki21
    2. How is Tiki22
      • Why the release news article was not written and published yet?
    3. What’s next
  2. Changes in other Open Source projects
    e.g. Elasticsearch no longer Open Source and Centos 8 now EOL before Centos 7? Strange times...
  3. ...

Second hour, longer topics

  1. Display pictures (files) from the file gallery through a tracker item

    We have here a "main" picture (used to list the item in many places) and we have several "sub" picture.
    They are displayed as thumbnail onside with a zoom over that output the hovered picture in a main area.

    Let’s discuss the options and how this can be done.
    This could be a pilot for the next topic.
  2. Tiki recipes, good practices
    The idea is to have a collection of good practices, solutions, Tiki recipes to help Tiki new admins to become Tiki advanced admin. There is a list of common problem to be solved on the internet using an application like Tiki or competitors. How to display pictures from an item, how to manage a user profile, how to use social network and many more. We ourself, the Tiki community have many ways to do the same things and we can’t say 100% it the optimised way to use resources and Tiki functionalities at its best.
    1. Discussing the idea
      1. Yes, I've thought for a long time that we need a "recipe" collection, or cook book, that gives information about doing things that aren't covered by the installation and configuration info at doc.t.o. Topics like ways to use trackers, how to use wiki plugins (especially the more complex ones like PluginList), when to use wiki syntax and when to use HTML, how to use Bootstrap classes in wiki page content, etc. are things that people need more guidance on.
    2. Discussing the where — Doc, Dev, Profiles ?
      1. I think themes.tiki.org might be a good place for this, kind of by process of elimination. Doc, Dev, and Profiles have specific purposes that "recipes and good practices" are outside of. I think of doc.t.o as the place for info on how to use Tiki as it ships, and there's plenty of content within that mandate. Tiki recipes and good practices are also outside of the scope of themes, strictly speaking, but themes.t.o is pretty low-activity so could take on another purpose. (To bend the site identity to match the content, the idea could be "not only visual themes but also 'usability themes'" ). There are already some guides there like how to make columns in pages, template tricks, and so on, so this is a natural extension, I think.
  3. Introduction To Tiki (Documentation)
    An idea came up for a flow chart of how to get what you want from Tiki when you're first starting out, worth discussing i think
  4. Discuss the current unsustainable strategy of Tiki.org, e.g. root problem (too many Features & Tiki versions in relation to the number of developers and Community), and solving this by switching to a 'Rolling Release' model (+ leading 'beta' version) to focus on Q.A. and community growth and support.
    • @Michael Menz Finko: I dispute that Tiki has an unsustainable strategy. Development continues even during the worst economic shock in decades: https://www.openhub.net/p/tikiwiki/commits/summary and we keep on releasing new versions, like Tiki22 and Tiki23. There are always many things to improve (better admin panels, etc.) and we can and should look at them one by one to find solutions, but the main idea (removing LTS) that you posted at Rolling Release of Tiki would cause massive pain to the ecosystem and you did nothing to demonstrate how it would help.
  5. Discuss streamlining Tiki (reducing Features, retiring features, cleaning up duplicate features, re-organizing features, document clean up, etc.) for easier on-boarding, clearer focus, quicker adoption, etc. As one example, see Control Panel Re-Organization https://dev.tiki.org/Control-Panel-re-organization
  6. Establishing Short and Medium term Organizational Plans for Tiki.org to set clear goals and objectives (so in addition to the general, macro and long term Tiki Road Map https://dev.tiki.org/RoadMap)
  7. ...


  • View and listen to the recording (when done) here.

Problems viewing/hearing the recording? Read this...


Suggestions of actions to be taken:

  • Upgrading Bootstrap 4 to Bootstrap 5
    • Bootstrap 4 end-of-life is 2022-01-01 (https://github.com/twbs/release) while not officially released, Bootstrap 5 is Beta1.
    • The migration from 4 to 5 require a "safe" version (non-LTS) to have at least one version to fixe stuff. Our next LTS is Tiki 24 02-2022 (https://info.tiki.org/Versions) so IMO the next good candidate should be Tiki23. Otherwise, it will be postponed to Tiki 25 meaning that the next LTS with bootstrap 5 will be Tiki 27 02-2024... It is really far away and will put Tiki in an uncomfortable situation with a non-supported bootstrap version for 2 years. (https://github.com/twbs/release).
    • My thinking is maybe it's better not to rush, for these reasons:
      • Bootstrap is still only at 5.0.0 beta 1 stage right now.
      • Bootstrap 5 drops support for MS Internet Explorer, which (strange as it might seem) could be an issue for corporate or large-organization users of Tiki. In a year, IE will be less an issue.
      • We could probably update Bootstrap in Tiki at least to produce an interface like what we have now, but to be thorough and make the best use of new utility classes and also get rid of more legacy Tiki CSS, it might be better to take more time.
      • A key question is why rush to move from Bootstrap 4 to 5? There is native support for RTL layouts, which is a big deal. Is there anything else, apart from incremental interface improvements?
  • Admin Icon Reorganization
  • Create page for discussion about Tiki switching to a Rolling Release version (or, maybe just one STS version)

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