Roundtable Meeting 2020 05

Volunteering Facilitator: Bernard Sfez / Tiki Specialist


Who plans to attend? (please vote for preferred times below)

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Sunday, May 24th, 2020 at 14:00:00 UTC time (click to check time zone in your location)
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Voting ended:
21 May 2020 13:00 GMT-0000
21 May 2020 14:00 GMT-0000
24 May 2020 13:00 GMT-0000
24 May 2020 14:00 GMT-0000



  1. https://recordings.rna1.blindsidenetworks.com/citadelrock/d559965849921585c1849af03b7a51638700d979-1590328424307/presentation/

  1. https://recordings.rna1.blindsidenetworks.com/citadelrock/d559965849921585c1849af03b7a51638700d979-1590336784454/presentation/


See Roundtable Meetings for a detailed description.


First hour, quick news

  1. Releases (as usual)
  2. Promotion (maybe better as a longer part 2 discussion)
  3. Site speed (especially Since Your Last Visit module)
  4. Tiki.org contact form field validation (before submitting) - avoiding loosing content
    We need to avoid having the content of a form erased because of an error.

    3rd attempt - your subject line doesn't seem to like non-alpha characters, my guess...
    One thing that really p****s me off about online forms is when the company tells you you've made an error, and then wipes the form clean. My bad for not protecting myself from that by copying everything or doing everything in notepad first, but really... *

  5. Elasticsearch support - which versions of Tiki support which versions of ES? (should be documented somewhere)
  6. ...

put your topic (max. 5-10 minutes) into the list above

Second hour, longer topics

  1. Profiles Reboot
    • Establish Best Practices for inter-profile cooperation and dependencies.
      • E.g. If we defined a reserved page-name and a Category into which Profile authors could place their Profile's admin page during install, it would mean every Tiki could have a centralized listing (on page-name) of all the admin pages for all of the site's installed Profiles.
    • Could we create a Profile dependency tree?
    • If our Features page included proven Out-of-the-Box solutions and included a step-by-step guide to implement each of these solutions, might Tiki usage start recovering?
    • Could the Profile creation process auto-create a manual installation checklist?
    • Could we auto-generate a Profile conflict matrix?
    • Can we rewrite the Profile documentation so that it is comprehensible to newbies who want to lean how to create Profiles? Maybe a Guide or Video?
      • I apologize for the negativity but, IMO, the sorry state of our Profiles is what is killing off Tiki. (@William Bliss)
        • Seriously! Are there any Out-of-the-Box Tiki Profile solutions which can compete with other free apps currently on the market?

        Don’t apologize. ;-)
      • Creators should be able to create them in a few clicks with options (to set fields names or pages names or currency for example)
      • Users should be able to use them in 3 clicks (and the options)
      • They aren’t updated because it is complicate to maintain a profile (let’s make it simple)... or it doesn’t pay (let's create a market place or encourage donations to creators).
  2. Wish list cleaning (again)
    1. ListExectute to alert posters of ancient wishes they will be closed automatically
    2. Then closing them automatically
    3. Better use of Priority field (i set the search page to use that sort order but the data need cleaning up )
  3. Git merge requests (again), i spent a lot of time and failed again
  4. ...


  • ...

put your follow up action(s) when you're done into the list above

Chat log

Guest: guill:yes
luciash d' being ?‍♂️ (luci):pain :-D
Bernard Sfez / Tiki Specialist (Bsfez):ha ha ha
Guest: guill:??️
Roberto Kirschbaum (robertokir):We have this...
Roberto Kirschbaum (robertokir):https://dev.tiki.org/How-to-release%3A-Follow-up
Jonny Bradley (jonnybradley):https://tiki.org/Communications-Team
Guest: guill:i've used Buffer in the past
Guest: guill:service to share to many social media platforms. free accounts have a few connections possible
Guest: guill:i paid. was pretty good.
Guest: guill:agreed with Bernard
luciash d' being ?‍♂️ (luci):Yup, Buffer and deliver.it are the main ones I think but it would be better to have a feature, yep, I was thinking the same as Gary.
Bernard Sfez / Tiki Specialist (Bsfez):https://buffer.com
Bernard Sfez / Tiki Specialist (Bsfez):https://buffer.com
Bernard Sfez / Tiki Specialist (Bsfez):https://dlvrit.com
Bernard Sfez / Tiki Specialist (Bsfez):they may be more of course...
luciash d' being ?‍♂️ (luci):they focus on one thing
luciash d' being ?‍♂️ (luci):we would need a team of developers watching the API changes
Bernard Sfez / Tiki Specialist (Bsfez):let's have facebook login working fine first :-D
luciash d' being ?‍♂️ (luci):I agree
Bernard Sfez / Tiki Specialist (Bsfez):https://tiki.org/Communications-Team
Guest: guill:agree with luci
Gary Cunningham-Lee (chibaguy):Does anyone else have trouble with "User Information" popups staying popped up too long, on tiki.org pages?
Gary Cunningham-Lee (chibaguy):I have problems getting them to disappear.
luciash d' being ?‍♂️ (luci):yep, exactly what I was thinking, if there is some free mid-api for Buffer we could use that (if that one does not change that often)...
Roberto Kirschbaum (robertokir):I confirm that dificulty Gary
Guest: guill:https://github.com/godbout/buffer-php-sdk
luciash d' being ?‍♂️ (luci):it does not have to be integrated in Tiki but we can just use some meta tag or JS something for tiki.org
luciash d' being ?‍♂️ (luci):that would make sharing the article on the social media easier
Bernard Sfez / Tiki Specialist (Bsfez):@Gary, I hate these actually on the file galleries with thumbnails just impossible to see anything even with no information shown in popup...
luciash d' being ?‍♂️ (luci):thanks Guill for the link and suggestion
Jean-Marc Libs (Jyhem):+1 for using the buffer sdk
Guest: guill:no worries
Guest: guill:i kinda forgot about it to be honest, while i worked on it last week lol
Guest: guill:but Bernard mentioning help, i thought about it
Guest: guill:but i don't want to touch social media accounts ?️
luciash d' being ?‍♂️ (luci)::D
Philippe (philmzo):I left another feedback when I registered days ago. I had to try 6 times to register on tiki.org
luciash d' being ?‍♂️ (luci):We can just put a warning there that it will not accept these characters at least
Philippe (philmzo):Looks like my feedback didn't reach you too. Maybe we loose even more register attempts
Bernard Sfez / Tiki Specialist (Bsfez):Ha ha ha... Luci THERE is a warning
luciash d' being ?‍♂️ (luci):Ah, OK
luciash d' being ?‍♂️ (luci):People should read that :-)
luciash d' being ?‍♂️ (luci):Not the bots
luciash d' being ?‍♂️ (luci)::-p
lindon:@Philippe - was the error CSRF related?
luciash d' being ?‍♂️ (luci):Philippe: still not received validation confirmation for your registration? Sorry about that!
Philippe (philmzo):I don't know. Fields on screen are changing after first attempt.
Philippe (philmzo):The best way is to logout and give a try to register
Philippe (philmzo):exactly Bernard
luciash d' being ?‍♂️ (luci):That is the bug (confirmed iirc) that when the server validation fails it comes back with the registration form but the tracker fields are missing
Jonny Bradley (jonnybradley):https://tiki.org/Contact-Us
luciash d' being ?‍♂️ (luci):@Philippe so you were able login in the end or not yet?
luciash d' being ?‍♂️ (luci):It was on the registration form
luciash d' being ?‍♂️ (luci):yep
Philippe (philmzo):yes after copy-pasting a lot :-)
luciash d' being ?‍♂️ (luci):Contact form works fine afaik
Philippe (philmzo):I also sent a feedback message and it looks like it didn't reach you
luciash d' being ?‍♂️ (luci):@Philippe: we are very sorry for the inconvenience
luciash d' being ?‍♂️ (luci):we will try to fix this finally and for all (hopefully)
luciash d' being ?‍♂️ (luci):yeah, jonny, what a shame
Philippe (philmzo):It tests for motivation :-)
Jean-Marc Libs (Jyhem)::-)
luciash d' being ?‍♂️ (luci):yep, true, you were very stubborn to get your account ;)
luciash d' being ?‍♂️ (luci):That was jonny - I suppose he is busy now
luciash d' being ?‍♂️ (luci):fixing the bug :-D
Gary Cunningham-Lee (chibaguy):If I enter Japanese in the user name field, the minimal form comes back saying "invalid username" but doesn't say why. Also I don't know what happened to the other fields like sourceforge username, and there was no "why do you want to register?" question in either form presentation.
Guest: guill::D
Guest: guill:oh nice
Guest: guill:there's a page yes
Guest: guill:i used the matrix for the ES versions of tiki docker
Marc Laporte (marclaporte):@Jonny: http://doc.tiki.org/Elasticsearch#Support_matrix
Guest: guill:http://doc.tiki.org/Elasticsearch#Support_matrix
Gary Cunningham-Lee (chibaguy):tiki.org is the slowest Tiki site that I regularly access.
luciash d' being ?‍♂️ (luci):I like the slow flow :-D
Guest: guill:this matrix is important because i use it for defining the versions handled by tiki docker
luciash d' being ?‍♂️ (luci):In this hectic age
Roberto Kirschbaum (robertokir):Did I hear 21.x works with ES 7?
Gary Cunningham-Lee (chibaguy):tiki.org is telling people to slow down and enjoy life ;-).
luciash d' being ?‍♂️ (luci)::D :-D :-D
luciash d' being ?‍♂️ (luci):Oh, really? Validation of what? Sorry, I am a bit lost
Jean-Marc Libs (Jyhem):Why would tiki.org download css from themes.tiki.org?
Gary Cunningham-Lee (chibaguy):It's for the URL popups for sister-sites and wikipedia, etc.
Guest: guill:themes.tiki.org/tiki-index_raw.php%3Fpage=Tiki_org_family_customizations_CSS&
Guest: guill:themes.tiki.org/tiki-index_raw.php%3Fpage=Tiki_org_family_headers_fix_CSS
Bernard Sfez / Tiki Specialist (Bsfez):I need to be offline 2mn
Marc Laporte (marclaporte):@luciash d' being 🧙: that was a request by SourceFortge.net at the time (use their logo)
Marc Laporte (marclaporte):But that may have changed, and we can stop if it causes issues
luciash d' being ?‍♂️ (luci):@Marc: yes we will use their logo but why to load it from their site?
luciash d' being ?‍♂️ (luci):to track its usage?
Marc Laporte (marclaporte):Yes
Gary Cunningham-Lee (chibaguy):Maybe we should show both SourceForge and Gitlab logos.
Gary Cunningham-Lee (chibaguy):(linking to our repositories)
Jonny Bradley (jonnybradley):https://doc.tiki.org/Requirements
Bernard Sfez / Tiki Specialist (Bsfez):A propos Es, anyone knows about Groonga ?
Bernard Sfez / Tiki Specialist (Bsfez):https://groonga.org/docs/characteristic.html#groonga-overview
luciash d' being ?‍♂️ (luci):nope Bernard, you are too ahead of us
Guest: guill:http://doc.tiki.org/Requirements
Bernard Sfez / Tiki Specialist (Bsfez):ha ha ha... Someone want to implement it in Tiki
Guest: guill:??️
Marc Laporte (marclaporte):Yes, PHP 7.4
Marc Laporte (marclaporte):and 8.0 in a few months
Guest: guill:8 ?️
Marc Laporte (marclaporte):William Bliss is from USA
Gary Cunningham-Lee (chibaguy):I just noticed the tiki.org left-column menu using the old .png icons. Quite retro.
Marc Laporte (marclaporte):PHP8: https://stitcher.io/blog/php-jit
Bernard Sfez / Tiki Specialist (Bsfez):First let's agree to change the name. :-)
luciash d' being ?‍♂️ (luci):I think some of the profiles are too complex to maintain. They could be easier to maintain if they were much more simplified.
luciash d' being ?‍♂️ (luci):@Bernard Sfez / Tiki Specialist: that is not the main issue - and I would need to rename profiles.luciash.eu ;) :-D
Bernard Sfez / Tiki Specialist (Bsfez)::-D
Bernard Sfez / Tiki Specialist (Bsfez):I would like "profiles" to work like this : https://docs.google.com/forms/u/0/
Bernard Sfez / Tiki Specialist (Bsfez):Contact information tracker profile... instant
luciash d' being ?‍♂️ (luci):Would the system tracker for accounting be created by applying the accounting profile?
luciash d' being ?‍♂️ (luci):Or would it be always there just unused? (sounds like waste of resorces to me?)
lindon:Agree, I think some of the more specific system items should only be created when the feature that needs it is turned on
Marc Laporte (marclaporte):We haven't gotten to that yet :-)
luciash d' being ?‍♂️ (luci):There is the fatal bug still if you try to preview a prfile btw...
luciash d' being ?‍♂️ (luci):*profile
luciash d' being ?‍♂️ (luci):I hear a waterfall
Roberto Kirschbaum (robertokir):@Lindon, your mic is very noisy...
Roberto Kirschbaum (robertokir):thanks!
Philippe (philmzo):And also have a wiki page to list the tracker content in the profile :-) I'm still bumping with relational tracker data
luciash d' being ?‍♂️ (luci):You mean we would be connected all day in the BBB meeting since the 10 o clock meeting? Can you imagine that? :-D
Gary Cunningham-Lee (chibaguy)::-)
Jonny Bradley (jonnybradley):Something like that Luci, but more flexible - small rooms doing stuff, maybe occasional big (10 o'clock) meetings?
Bernard Sfez / Tiki Specialist (Bsfez):Don't turn me into Google defender ! I don't use those only when my daughter teacher ask me too :-)
Gary Cunningham-Lee (chibaguy)::-)
luciash d' being ?‍♂️ (luci):I am willing to invest my time in improving the Profiles UI/UX because it is in my interest but I cannot work on fixing everything broken there now - so who is with me (for fixing the backend bugs)?
Bernard Sfez / Tiki Specialist (Bsfez):+1 Luci
Marc Laporte (marclaporte):https://doc.tiki.org/PluginFitnesse
Marc Laporte (marclaporte):To test your math formulae
Bernard Sfez / Tiki Specialist (Bsfez):I didn't say it break. It is working (for me) The currency preferences (select your currency) is not working
Bernard Sfez / Tiki Specialist (Bsfez):Or how we say it in Klingon: "Ha' neH Qu' 'oH"
Bernard Sfez / Tiki Specialist (Bsfez):Let's just do it
luciash d' being ?‍♂️ (luci):Good point, Gary, true.
luciash d' being ?‍♂️ (luci):Here is the bug report about the profile preview error: https://dev.tiki.org/item6971-Profile-Preview-Changes-button-just-brings-up-modal-with-fatal-error
Bernard Sfez / Tiki Specialist (Bsfez):Don't we have already a "Profile reboot/revamp" page
luciash d' being ?‍♂️ (luci):still not fixed after two years of reporting it
Gary Cunningham-Lee (chibaguy):https://dev.tiki.org/Profiles-revamp
Bernard Sfez / Tiki Specialist (Bsfez):http://dev.tiki.org/Wishlist+Search+Page?default%5Bcontent%5D=profiles#sort_mode=modification_date_asc
Marc Laporte (marclaporte):https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drip_marketing
luciash d' being ?‍♂️ (luci):What if we extend the in-built status field to allow admins to define their own statuses optionally among the o,p,c?
luciash d' being ?‍♂️ (luci):Too many issues ahead because of the tie to the permissions?
Marc Laporte (marclaporte):Maybe we could have a button: "I can't reproduce", and once we have 3, it closes in that status
Guest: guill:LOL
luciash d' being ?‍♂️ (luci)::D
Guest: guill:the usual answer: do it then
Guest: guill:good luck!
luciash d' being ?‍♂️ (luci):the question is quick, but the answer...
lindon:@Marc Laporte - I like that idea
Jonny Bradley (jonnybradley):Also this: "Unable to get information from show2.tikiwiki.org"
luciash d' being ?‍♂️ (luci):show2 is on xavi
Philippe (philmzo):This week, I wrote a wish that was a fix actually. I thought it was more "Feature Request" than Bug. It points to a REST PHP script that I successfully run with TW21
Jean-Marc Libs (Jyhem):Week day or weekend?
luciash d' being ?‍♂️ (luci):but it seems to work for me (show2)
Guest: guill::D
luciash d' being ?‍♂️ (luci):haha
luciash d' being ?‍♂️ (luci):but it will not be real tikifest as we cannot go to a pub together
luciash d' being ?‍♂️ (luci)::(
luciash d' being ?‍♂️ (luci):we cn create any
luciash d' being ?‍♂️ (luci):can
luciash d' being ?‍♂️ (luci):with the plugin
luciash d' being ?‍♂️ (luci):on tiki.org
Marc Laporte (marclaporte):https://community.jitsi.org/t/breakout-rooms/33486/13
luciash d' being ?‍♂️ (luci):yes
luciash d' being ?‍♂️ (luci):we can make a little break and come back in a few mins?
Gary Cunningham-Lee (chibaguy):Actually I need to go pretty soon.
luciash d' being ?‍♂️ (luci):I have no issues at all with Git because I work without the fork the old Tiki way ;) (direct push access)
Bernard Sfez / Tiki Specialist (Bsfez):Please add your thoughts and dates and hours : https://dev.tiki.org/Profiles-revamp#Profile_reboot_May_2020
luciash d' being ?‍♂️ (luci):you should never need to use the force (even with forks)
luciash d' being ?‍♂️ (luci):as you wish
Guest: guill:just before leaving
luciash d' being ?‍♂️ (luci):np
Guest: guill:if anyone interested, the offline Tiki doc is ready
Marc Laporte (marclaporte):Fantastic idea!
Guest: guill:send me an email for more info
Guest: guill:if not interested then have a good night ?️
Marc Laporte (marclaporte):@Guillaume: I am interested

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