Re: Is Tiki dead or alive?
First, thank you for your very quick response.
Second, I did try your script fix for the timeout problem. But either I mucked it up, or its not compatible with1.9.4, as I now have code showing above the edit window, where code should certainly not be seen, and I do not get a countdown in the bar. I'll have to go back and undo those changes. I did try to be very careful in making the changes, but no doubt I still did it wrong somehow. Like I said, I'm a user, not a programmer. And I made the cardinal mistake, of not backing up the file before changing it. I deserve a size 10 in the backside for that one. At any rate, its minor and I'll get it fixed.
But what would be best from my own point of view, would be if the timeout could be set to more than 30 minutes. If I could set it to 60, that would eliminate 99% of problems. But as it is I use the simple workaround, of having a second window to the site open, and every few minutes I go and change pages in that window (Well, tab, since I use Firefox.). Not the best solution, but it works for now.
No, I did not go and check out any add-on themes, for Tiki or any of the others. I was going just by whats included out of the box. In sheer numbers, Tiki blows the rest away. But most are anything but good looking. At least in my opinion. It was my intention from the start, to eventually create custom themes for my main and sub sites. So included themes were only looked at in the light of making the site presentable until I could make custom themes. But included content, such as themes, are also an indicator of just who the software is aimed at. If its aimed at developers, themes are an afterthought, since they can easily create their own.. But if aimed at users, more are generally included, to make the users life easier. Being a user and not a developer, thats a strong selling point to me.
I see you did answer my original post. Thank you for that. But I am not used to waiting for a week or more for responses, so I gave up watching the thread shortly before you posted it. I do try to be patient, but I also have my limits. That does bring up something tho. It would be nice if Tiki had an email alert system, so that users could choose to be alerted by email if someone replies to their post. Thats a feature I enjoy in some forum programs.
LOL, yes, I have looked in the docs and FAQs. I'm not only an oldhead, but I'm an oldhead NERD, I've been online since the days of the BBSs, before the Internet was opened to the public. So I have a long history of using discussion systems. I was even a Sysop way back when. So while I might be a noob to Tiki, I'm an old hat at most things.
I havent been on IRC in a dogs age, so no, I havent tried that. If I stay with Tiki (And for now it looks like I will.), then I guess I'll have to look for a Firefox plugin for that.
I dont talk about specific security issues in the clear either, unless, as in this case, they are already very well known. This one was all over Google. Still, there was no need to go into exact details, and I didnt. Sadly, one of the other systems I am testing DID have a "security site" going into great detail about such a weakness, without even bothering to contact that project first. Such an act should be criminal, as in "aiding and abetting", but we all know how sloppy the laws for online things are.
"Tribal Data" is an interesting term I ran into yesterday. Means information generally known inside a community, but which is not known outside of that community. Yes, I am sure you have seen plenty of life signs WITHIN the Tiki project. But for those outside of the project, who just use some search engine, the project appears dead or comatose, just as I said. No new files or whatever appearing out on the rest of the net. I'm a bit more thorough than most in what I do. I generally have the time to spare. But anyone not taking the time to go to the source, who just does a quick web search, would conclude that the project is in a bad way.
"Here, I totally agree with you. This issue has been raised before (once by me!). FWIW, I also feel that Tiki's #1 problem is that it doesn't sell well. Content-wise, there are very few CMSes that can match Tiki but, as the saying goes...
Content is king.... but sex sells."
On this, we are as one mind. I have a business background, and I can tell you that the addage "Dont judge a book by its cover" is complete BULL! Everyone judges things by how they look. No point arguing whether they should or not, the fact remains that they do. And in business, wishful thinking has no place. You deal with what is, not with what should be.
And at the risk of offending people here, I'll give a dose of my infamous honesty.
Looking around at Tiki, the program, its skins, and its sites and forums, what I see is dull, boring, lifeless and completely uninteresting. By comparison, other sites, even the dead ones, tend to look bright, cheerful, alive, and interesting.
Do I really need to say which sites people would rather go to?
Without question, Tiki has the goods where it counts. But if it doesnt grab people's attention, how many will see that? Yes, some, like me, will look beyond mere appearance. But many wont.
And lets face it, I dont think any here are working on the project just for shits and giggles. They want to make a difference, and they want people to use what they have worked so hard on. So whether its "free" or not, the project and it's products still need to be "sold" to others.
And if you want to sell to others, you need to do two things, define who you want to sell to, and package your product to appeal to those people.
Without going into too fine a detail, your market is webmasters and wannabe webmasters. People who are or want to put up more than just a couple pages. Many would be business people, but there would also be community leaders and various groups. Such tend to be a bit conservative, but being online, not too conservative. They are also people looking for something dependable that they can rely on.
In a nutshell, thats your target market.
Now, how to appeal to them.
First, with anyone conservative, stay away from anything too flashy and gaudy, it scares them. You also want to radiate dependability and security, so think simple bold but not too bright colors. For the ultimate example of this, just walk into any sizable bank and look around. They dont look that way by accident. For online use, you want to be just a bit brighter than that. Say the same kind of base colors, but a bit more flash here and there to liven it up. And since the target market is a bit older than the average user, and likely their eyes arent what they used to be, increase text size a bit.
Just based on this so far, you want simple bold colors, with a bit of flash here and there to liven it up. Plus you want combinations that are easy on the eyes. Think greys, earth tones, and pastels, but stay away from yellows, reds, pinks, and purples.
If anyone thinks I'm just blowing smoke, dont take my word for it, go surf some business sites, and look closely at the colors and patterns they use. You'll see it for yourself. Businesses spend a lot of money on presentation, because they know it can make or break them. If there are any developers here, you know thats true. They want "just the right look", and they will do a lot to get it.
If Tiki is going to keep up with the competition, then it needs to start working on this. It has the goods to be proud of, so it should not seem to be sitting off in some corner somewhere. It should be standing up proudly right in the thick of things.
If you want someone that knows a bit about marketing to help out the project, I'd be happy to. But as you have already seen, I can be a royal PITA, and I can be very irritating. Those things served me well as an activist, but they certainly dont make me very popular. Far as my qualifications go, I am not the best around. But on the other hand, I come cheap. As in free. God knows I use open source often enough. But I have rarely been able to contribute anything in return. That offends my own sense of balance. So if given a chance to contribute something I do know about, I would be more than happy to.