I'm a fan of that stuff, too. Was looking critically at Tiki and have to admit that Tiki is everything else than Strict. In fact, validating XHTML strictness is an improbability for scalable systems, unless they are small and don't grow. Actually, only private pages and small pages of ambitious webdesigners validate sometimes. The good news is that it depends mainly on the templates anyway! When I started rewriting some randomly chosen theme from table-based to table-less of course I cleaned-up-some-code(tm) and in a few weeks I hope to hold in my hands the first validating and div-based version of my Tiki, but that's still a few steps to go. The bad news are, that heavily changed templates unlikely survive many version changes of the Tiki system. I guess that if one really goes through the trouble of writing a *different* theme, he'd have to incorporate it somehow into the whole Tiki-community/Tiki-product-line, or else it's ... doomed.