Roundtable Meeting 2020 08

Volunteering Facilitator: Bernard Sfez / Tiki Specialist


Who plans to attend? (please vote for preferred times below)

People Confirmed

People Interested

  • @Xavier de Pedro - I'd like to attend but I can't make it the week from August 17th-23rd, but I can almost any day and time the week after: from August 24th to 30th .

was there?

According to the tiki logs:

  • Alice (anon)
  • Bsfez
  • chibaguy
  • Jyhem
  • lindon
  • marclaporte
  • mikeua
  • robertokir
  • xavidp


Thu 27 Aug 2020 14:30 UTC

Time in your timezone (when this page was last reloaded): Tuesday 05 March 2024 00:35:43 UTC


The time will be set by the participants vote:

Tiki Roundtable Meeting Time Votes

Voting ended:
20 Aug 2020 14:30 GMT-0000
23 Aug 2020 14:00 GMT-0000
27 Aug 2020 14:30 GMT-0000
30 Aug 2020 14:00 GMT-0000



See Roundtable Meetings for a detailed description.


First hour, quick news

  1. Plugin Tracker / Plugin Tracker List GUI - revise all options into 'Tabs' view. Why? It's typically the first impression for new users to Trackers and the list is very, very long (read: not user friendly) Is this a significant amount of work? (Mike FInko)
  2. Machine Learning (1- Rubix ML community meeting: recording available soon. Code plan made: Commits by Victor soon)
  3. Ma question is: How can I adjust the URLs of the single wiki pages and of the homepage of wiki? (Alisa)
  4. ...

put your topic (max. 5-10 minutes) into the list above

Second hour, longer topics

(1) Where is the doc ?

Since few versions less and less information are added by developers or people (investors) adding or improving stuff to the version doc and generally at doc.tiki.org while more and more new features and options added.

http://doc.tiki.org/Tiki22 doesn’t reflect at all the mass of improvement and additions in master (https://gitlab.com/tikiwiki/tiki/-/commits/master)

This is a serious concern as many of the new stuff is known by only a handful of people. In time there is a danger information is lost. IE: the Relation tracker fields was developed a few years ago without serious doc and today it is very hard to find how to use the full power of its options and we can only rely on existing usage (http://doc.tiki.org/Relations-Tracker-Field).

  • I've been one the main persons (besides Marc) to create/extend/maintain these pages reporting the new features in any new version of Tiki over the years until Tiki16. My offline duties changed by then and I can't find the time to do that task as before, when I used to "comb" the cvs/svn lists for NEW and ENH tags, and place information in the corresponding doc page for that tiki version. I'm currently mostly focusing in investing my little free time for this task in the LTS versions, which are the ones I use in my day to day life (for personal or professional reasons). Looking at the history of those wiki pages in doc.t.o (Tiki17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22) I see other people are contributing, beyond Marc, to drop a section and some line to cite the new feature or enhancement added, etc. However, maybe this is not enough, for what you @Bernard Sfez / Tiki Specialist say.

  • In addition to that fact, the "Changes Wizard" was added years ago (formerly known as the "Upgrade Wizard", to display in short the main new preferences and settings available since any new tiki version, plus some information of the new changes that you could find there. As far as I know, little additions to this wizard are added by other devs. And since I don't know yet which are the new features and enhancements added to Tiki22, I didn't even find the time to start the new screen for Tiki 22 in there.

  • Xavi... wrong direction.
    I’m not talking about "changelog" or a list of new stuff added (whatever you want to call it) but about Tiki online documentation, about documenting how to use new features, options, changes, etc.
    It is pretty obvious (at leat to me) that less and less samples, less screenshot, less explanations are added to our online doc and that’s leave us with a handful of users having a real idea on how to use them.
    The Tiki online documentation is critical for Tiki Admin to understand how to use, how they can improve their existing Tiki or how to use an option they just discovered on their way.

    And just to clarify, there are a few people (other than you and Marc) adding a line here and there as they can (thanks).

(2) Where are the users?

I have the sensation that we have been too many years not being able to pay enough attention to (1) the user forums in tiki.org, as well as (2) to the bug reports/feature requests in dev.t.o. That might be one of the reasons why we are loosing power and health in our community over the years.

I've seen that some other software communities (Ubuntu, RStudio, ...) included a section in their notifications to users (the equivalent to the notification digests or the Daily reports in Tiki) about the new posts without replies yet. We could do something similar, to prevent cases in which posters receive no feedback at all, and add some way that users willing to help can subscribe to something like:

  • forum posts in t.o without any reply yet
  • open bug/wish reports in dev.t.o without any comment by any other user, nor any change in the "Lastmod by" field in the last n weeks (n=1?)
  • bug/wish reports still open and not triaged (still with the Resolution status = "New") affecting any of the last n tiki versions (n=3?)

We could then add that report by default to the tikiwiki-users email list, for instance, plus allow anyone else to subscribe.

And as a low hanging fruit, a section in the report with "what's new since the last report" (being fed from the content in the "since your last visit" feature in Tiki, might be handy (this is also added in the reports sent by some other software communities, that seem that might be having better health than ours, imho .

  • This discussion is more than welcomed (I’ve planned to add this topic to our next TAG meeting)

Also - regarding 'Users', shouldn't there be an option to label your own posts in the Forums as 'resolved, partially resolved, (other?)'? This would help for the 'Since Last Login' report or email list mentioned above by Xavi. This falls under the category of reducing 'single points of failure', or, everyone does a little. (Mike / 15:41EET / 25.08.2020 - I don't have the 'sign' button, could copy/past/edit the code but a bit pointless)

(3) Current best practice/workflow for using Git for Tiki

I know this has been discussed before but, if people are ok with it, can we have an update on the best Git workflow, etc. for Tiki? Or if this isn't necessary because there is an up-to-date comprehensive doc page, please put the link(s) here instead. (I'm asking because I haven't committed to Tiki yet via Git, having been busy with other things since the last time I started to set up the workflow - sorry ;-) .)

UPDATE: This topic was withdrawn because time was running short. My questions were answered on the dev mailing list instead.


  • View and listen to the recording here.

Problem to view the recording? Read this...


Suggestions of actions to be taken:

1.1. Synchronous discussions: Decide whether Irc vs other chats (wikisuite.chat, for instance)

proposal: equivalent of wikisuite.chat but for tiki address and scope only.

Proposal to go straight to Step 2 (provided that people will participate and help where needed):

  • For: Gary, Xavi, Jyhem, Marc, lindon, Mike, luci
  • Against:
  • Undecided:

Pending topics about this option:

  • Logs of previous days in openfire-based chats (like wikisuite.chat or the potential chat.tiki.org):

Xavi sends a message to the devels list, to allow getting feedback for some time before making it happen .

1.2. Asynchronous Discussions - Forum Topic Status

  • we discussed adding a field (or using a current field?), where the topic creator can mark the topic as: 'Solved', 'Unresolved', 'Partially Resolved', etc. Maybe the default should be 'New'? If the topic creator is responsible for this, than it will be mostly sustainable without anyone having to do any extra work. Otherwise, we can create a List Execute to change all 'New' answers to 'Unresolved' if no response over 30 days. Opinions?
  • it was also suggested to add a 'Resolved' to the title of the topic, like in brackets. While this sounds good, who would do this? While this may not be much work, I suspect it is more than anyone has time to do, and the first option above is simpler and faster to implement
  • can we add a search filter to the 'Topic' column
  • I created a 'PluginSlider' (but swiper may be better) that we could put on the top of the 'Forums' to 'humanize' them a bit, or encourage community building:

1.3. Junior devs helping in Tiki Open Online Hours

We need a person to coordinate the effort of junior dev work, sponsored by EvoluData.

1.4. some topics may come back in the next TRM

  • About how to improve getting feedback to new users in forums, etc.
    • Asynchronous discussions: User Forums (many) vs Users List (1)
  • when / how to automatically change status of long (potentially obsolete) bug reports, etc.
    • Raise the old thread again.

1.5. Cleaned doc.t.o/Upgrade page

I've cleaned a bit the Upgrade page, after the discussion, moving oldish content to a newly created child page in that wiki strcuture.

1.6. PluginTogether in t.o - serverurl added

As soon as the enhancement commited by kroky6 is backported to 21.x (or we get t.o running on Tiki22), we will be able to use again the PluginTogether in our TRM meetings in t.o

I added the same serverurl param to the equivalent module on dev.t.o so that we can use it there also.

Remember that you have to temporarily disable the highlighter (in case it's on) for the PluginTogether to work as expected with current versions of Tiki.

1.7. Mike will submit a 'Wish' regarding the first topic, in the first half (Plugin Tracker / Plugin Tracker List GUI - revise all options into 'Tabs' view)

put your follow up action(s) when you're done into the list above

Chat log

Marc Laporte (marclaporte):I can add a quick topic: Machine Learning
Guest: Alisa:Hi. Thank you. Ma question is: How can I adjust the URLs of the single wiki pages and of the homepage of wiki?
Bernard Sfez / Tiki Specialist (Bsfez):Hello
Gary Cunningham-Lee (chibaguy):Hi Alisa. Do you mean as described on http://doc.tiki.org/Search-Engine-Friendly-URL ?
Gary Cunningham-Lee (chibaguy):(to shorten the URLs)
Mike Finko (mikeua):flat, tabs, configured - the three options
Roberto Kirschbaum (robertokir):Bernard sounding a little choppy
Marc Laporte (marclaporte):audio is choppy
Jean-Marc Libs (Jyhem):Bernard sounds very choppy
Guest: Alisa:My URL for the homepage is: https://www.filterzentrale.com/tiki/ I would like it to be like this: https://www.filterzentrale.com/wiki/
Bernard Sfez / Tiki Specialist (Bsfez):Seems I have very bad connection...
Jean-Marc Libs (Jyhem):/me just added Alisa's question to https://tiki.org/Roundtable-Meeting-2020-08
Xavi (as xavidp - admin) (xavidp):Alisa, you just need to rename the folder by means of ftp or equivalent (or your file manager in your control panel in your webhost)
Bernard Sfez / Tiki Specialist (Bsfez):Can't see or hear... I'll try something else
Guest: Alisa:thank you
Mike Finko (mikeua):the video on the Tiki Dev site was very informative https://dev.tiki.org/Rubix%20ML#Machine_Learning_vs_Artificial_Intellience
Jean-Marc Libs (Jyhem):Alisa, it seems your Tiki website is installed in a folder named "tiki". This folder should be renamed as "wiki"
Mike Finko (mikeua):RubixML - which versions of php will it run on?
Jean-Marc Libs (Jyhem):will we update it using composer?
Jean-Marc Libs (Jyhem):Where will the datasets live? Trackers or also files in a folder or as an attachment
Jean-Marc Libs (Jyhem):?
Xavi (as xavidp - admin) (xavidp):Mike: RubixML requirements: 7.2 or above
Mike Finko (mikeua):thanks Xavi. 7.2 is reasonable and seems to be commonly used.
Jean-Marc Libs (Jyhem):sure
Roberto Kirschbaum (robertokir):It takes practice to learn!
Gary Cunningham-Lee (chibaguy):Another task for machine learning ;-) .
Gary Cunningham-Lee (chibaguy):Analyze the commits and identify/describe new features.
Marc Laporte (marclaporte): http://doc.tiki.org/Two-factor-authentication
Mike Finko (mikeua):for
Gary Cunningham-Lee (chibaguy):For Windows, https://screen-to-gif.en.softonic.com/ .
Mike Finko (mikeua):for 'screencasts' I use 'Simple Screen Recorder'
Mike Finko (mikeua): http://www.maartenbaert.be/simplescreenrecorder/
lindon:thank you Mike
Xavi (as xavidp - admin) (xavidp):Jean Marc: https://seeds4c.org/Ubuntu+18.04+LTS+for+Human+Beans#Screencasting_in_gif
Mike Finko (mikeua):Xavi - the site needs an Let's Encrypt SSL ;-)
Xavi (as xavidp - admin) (xavidp):lindon: simplescreenrecoder is awesome (it's the main one I've been using in gnu/linux for years), unfortunately, I'm unsure it does exist or has been ported to Mac (and I'm afraid it's more complex than just a gif animator)
Xavi (as xavidp - admin) (xavidp):mike: :-) I do have one, the problem is that some images are shown from external urls without https, afaik
Jean-Marc Libs (Jyhem):Thanks Xavi!
Roberto Kirschbaum (robertokir):Thank you Xavi!
Marc Laporte (marclaporte):We have many places:
Marc Laporte (marclaporte):* Forums * Trackers * Wiki * Chat ** IRC ** XMPP
Marc Laporte (marclaporte):* Mailing Lists
Jean-Marc Libs (Jyhem):jitsi also has a very active IRC forum
Jean-Marc Libs (Jyhem):Tis is the topic of IRC:
Jean-Marc Libs (Jyhem):Tiki 21.1 is out! (See https://tiki.org/news) Questions? Just ask! We log the channel @ http://irc.tiki.org (start the line with [off] to exclude your message from the log). If nobody responds try https://wikisuite.chat
Marc Laporte (marclaporte):Tiki Deliberation!
Marc Laporte (marclaporte): http://doc.tiki.org/Deliberation
Roberto Kirschbaum (robertokir):Gary
Roberto Kirschbaum (robertokir): https://dev.tiki.org/Git-Workflow
Gary Cunningham-Lee (chibaguy):Ok, thanks, Roberto. So that's the most up-to-date page?
Roberto Kirschbaum (robertokir):That's the one Fabio told me was the best one
Roberto Kirschbaum (robertokir):to start at
Gary Cunningham-Lee (chibaguy):Ok, thank you.
Roberto Kirschbaum (robertokir):u welcome
Jean-Marc Libs (Jyhem):A job for RubixML ? :-)
Marc Laporte (marclaporte): https://wikisuite.org/item46-Openfire-XMPP-chat-and-video-logs-to-be-searchable-and-accessible-to-Tiki
Marc Laporte (marclaporte): https://github.com/igniterealtime/openfire-monitoring-plugin/issues/35
lindon:Marc - is this the chat that has the anti-csrf problem?
Marc Laporte (marclaporte):@Lindon: not sure what you mean
Mike Finko (mikeua):How to ENGAGE and AUDIENCE (1) Have clear value for them (2) Low friction sign-up (3) Regularly deliver practical content/value (4) Recognize and reward active members (5) Build a real relationship (6) Get feedback + improve. -Jono Bacon (former Canonical Community Director)
lindon:@Marc Laporte: will reply by forwarding a prior email for context
Jean-Marc Libs (Jyhem):It's OK : we did not believe you :-D
lindon:@Mike Finko - do you have a problem with using {sign}?
Mike Finko (mikeua):there is no 'button' for it in my toolbars. I did not find how to add it (I could copy/past the code, but...). I'm not and 'admin'.
lindon:Just type in {sign} at the end of what you write - when the page is saved the other data gets added automatically
Mike Finko (mikeua):ok, will try, thanks!
Jean-Marc Libs (Jyhem):But here is the club of people not using Apple! :-)
Gary Cunningham-Lee (chibaguy):Oops, I'm using an iPhone for my webcam. ;-)
Marc Laporte (marclaporte):What I was talking about before: https://tiki.org/Where
Marc Laporte (marclaporte):nice!
Marc Laporte (marclaporte): http://doc.tiki.org/PluginTogether
Roberto Kirschbaum (robertokir):Bye bye all!
Gary Cunningham-Lee (chibaguy):Bye Robeto
Gary Cunningham-Lee (chibaguy):Roberto
Jean-Marc Libs (Jyhem):Bye Bye ! See you next month

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Page last modified on Wednesday 09 September 2020 12:07:30 GMT-0000