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    • The Site from a Newbie Perspective

    Posted by DMC

    I am a newbie to TikiWiki in two ways:

    1. I decided that I wanted to switch from pmwiki to tikiwiki for two websites (one work, one personal). I have changed my personal website into a TikiWiki site. The basics are now up and running though I have many questions to resolve.

    2. I am therefore new to TikiWiki as a user. I have to create content, link the content, etc... in creating the sites.

    I find the website to lack a clear understanding of me as a user in either of the above ways. It is hard to find the information that I need. I have found better help from searching on google than using this site. Maybe this is because I haven't grasped the logic of this site, but if this is the case the questions why can't I grasp the order of this site?

    But I find this site even more lacking as a reference for users who will come to my site and need reference materials. My options are to help you alter this site to satisfy this need or create this on my own separately. It seems that it would serve the greater good if this site could be altered to satisfy this need.

    This site satisfies the need for the admin with the following:

    • What is TikiWiki
    • Why select Tiki? (Not 'use' as on left 'menu bar'.)
    • Feature List
    • Software Requirements
    • Reviews
    • Friendly Hosts
    • Tiki First Steps


    This site does not satisfy the needs of a Newbie user who has to deal with wiki after someone else has already chosen Tiki as the solution. Just gathering my thoughts here, but the needs of this user community are as follows:

    • What is a Wiki?
    • WhyWikiWorks
    • WikiPhilosophy
    • WikiSyntax/Sandbox (See my suggestion page WikiSyntaxHelp.)
    • Wiki Etiquette
    • Editing Customs (should I edit or comment?)


    I am sure there would be more to add to this, but I think this latter set of users should be prominently served by the left 'menubar'. Even better would be that the 'menubar' would be clear who the customer of the information is so that a person feels well-served be the information provided.

    Any comments welcome.

    DMC

    Reads: 1912
    Posted by Gary Cunningham-Lee

    > .... It is hard to find the information that I need. I have found better help from searching on google than using this site. Maybe this is because I haven't grasped the logic of this site, but if this is the case the questions why can't I grasp the order of this site?

    Tikiwiki.org is a large, "organic" site that, like any open wiki, may not display an obvious "order" since there is no inherent hierarchy of information. In addition, the audience here is not only new users but also people who have been using (or developing) Tiki for various lengths of time. This means a user at any particular level has to find the information he/she needs from among volumes of irrelevant stuff. Also, admittedly the search function here has been lagging and is still not as effective as it should be.

    > But I find this site even more lacking as a reference for users who will come to my site and need reference materials. My options are to help you alter this site to satisfy this need or create this on my own separately. It seems that it would serve the greater good if this site could be altered to satisfy this need.

    This site isn't meant to be the reference for Tikiwiki users. As pointed out in one of the top paragraphs of the index page, that is the job of http://doc.tikiwiki.orgQuestion. The documentation is a volunteer effort that trails behind Tiki development, but most doc pages either have useable information or point to other, older pages that do. If the user still needs help after visiting the doc pages, then there's the tikiwiki.org forums and IRC.

    You have to keep in mind that there are many levels of users using this site. While the newbie will be overwhelmed by the amount of information on the page, the veteran would be frustrated by the lack of information updates, "power-user information", developer-relevant things, etc. if the site were revised to be newbie-centric. A balance has to be reached, and of course this is an ongoing process.

    > This site satisfies the need for the admin with the following:
    >
    > * What is TikiWiki
    > * Why select Tiki? (Not 'use' as on left 'menu bar'.)
    > * Feature List
    > * Software Requirements
    > * Reviews
    > * Friendly Hosts
    > * Tiki First Steps

    Seems to me the top paragraphs and links at top left provide answers on some of those points. I see links like "About Tiki," "Tiki features," "Why use Tiki," "Installation guides," "Reviews," etc. Did you miss those, or did they not give you satisfying answers?

    > This site does not satisfy the needs of a Newbie user who has to deal with wiki after someone else has already chosen Tiki as the solution. Just gathering my thoughts here, but the needs of this user community are as follows:
    >
    > * What is a Wiki?
    > * WhyWikiWorks
    > * WikiPhilosophy
    > * WikiSyntax/Sandbox (See my suggestion page WikiSyntaxHelp.)
    > * Wiki Etiquette
    > * Editing Customs (should I edit or comment?)
    >
    > I am sure there would be more to add to this, but I think this latter set of users should be prominently served by the left 'menubar'. Even better would be that the 'menubar' would be clear who the customer of the information is so that a person feels well-served be the information provided.
    >
    > Any comments welcome.

    I think there is some resistance to changing the current page layout and info organization at this site, maybe because of the various user levels that have to be catered to, as I mentioned. But I think it's good to point out problems from the newbie's perspective, because the oldtimers may no longer have a clear idea of how the site strikes newcomers. As for the basic issues like "what is a wiki?" I suppose there is an assumption here that most visitors already understand the basics. Topics like wiki etiquette don't need to be front-page items, IMO.

    -- Gary


    Posted by akizzle

    Yes I agree with you - the site has too many links on the left, and the greyish look is intimidating.
    __
    I propose the following changes:__

    -Make the header bigger, and have links to the stuff like "why tikiwiki" up there In a style simular to drupal.

    -Remove unneccasery modules, and merge things - eg give the forums 1 link instead of two, and remove Last 30 Changes, Last 10 Wiki Comments, Dev.tikiwiki.org, Quick edit a page
    Also, send the less used modules to the bottem such as online users, or even better, add it to the fotter and get rid of these RSS links (give them their own page)

    -Use a more vibrant style, such as the one I am creating at the mo:

    Image
    (I am willing to create another theme for branding purposes if u guys want it)

    Posted by Gary Cunningham-Lee

    > Yes I agree with you - the site has too many links on the left, and the greyish look is intimidating.

    Well, beginners need those "getting started" links, and seasoned veterans or others wanting information on current activity at the site need the "latest posts," etc. links, so whose information do you trim away?

    > __
    > I propose the following changes:__
    >
    > -Make the header bigger,

    Is site identity a problem? It seems providing information has a higher priority than extraneous graphics.

    > and have links to the stuff like "why tikiwiki" up there In a style simular to drupal.

    Yeah, I like that box on Drupal's front page.

    > -Remove unneccasery modules, and merge things - eg give the forums 1 link instead of two, and remove Last 30 Changes, Last 10 Wiki Comments, Dev.tikiwiki.org, Quick edit a page

    But what is "unnecessary"?

    Any registered user can remove these modules from his/her own view if that's a problem. For unregistered users or other people not logged in, I guess the admins think too much information is better than not enough. "Quick edit a wiki page" doesn't display to people not logged in, by the way. I don't know what you mean by two forum links. Do you mean in the menus? Actually I was hoping a link could be added for the Templates/Layouts forum because I think a lot of people aren't aware of it, so that's another case of a bit more info on the page having a legitimate rationale.

    > Also, send the less used modules to the bottem such as online users, or even better, add it to the fotter and get rid of these RSS links (give them their own page)

    Again, the question is "less used" by whom? I look at the online users module, but even if I didn't much, it only takes up a couple of lines of space. The RSS links could be moved, true (my opinion — don't know what other people think).

    > -Use a more vibrant style, such as the one I am creating at the mo:
    >
    > img src=http://members.lycos.co.uk/agnostics/philosophy.jpgQuestion
    > (I am willing to create another theme for branding purposes if u guys want it)

    (In cases like this, it's better to just include a thumbnail, or at least a reduced-size image, in forum posts, and link to the full image. It's a drag to have to scroll around on a page because of a big image in a forum post. I believe 1024px-wide displays are still the most common.) Anyway, there are "more vibrant" styles already available for Tiki. But I guess the people adminning this site (some of whom, at least, have themselves created more visually interesting Tiki themes) like the neutral, conservative style and, I think, aren't into "branding" particularly. Maybe it's a good choice; at the very least it leaves room for others to show design alternativesQuestion 😉.

    -- Gary